Goldendoodle duck dog?


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By rb8187 - 8/10/2009 10:59:45 PM
I am looking to get a new bird dog, however, my family's allergies are limiting my choices. I was considering a Goldendoodle. (Golden retriever/poodle cross) They are supposedly allergen free and due to the hunting history of both breeds, although the poodles hunting history is ancient, it seems that this hybrid would make both a good hunting and family dog. A friend of mine has a puppy that seems to be taking to retrieving and water very well, but he doesn't plan to train it for hunting. I was just wondering if anyone out there has every tried the goldendoodle for duck and/or upland hunting or has any more information on the subject 
By kghops - 8/11/2009 7:46:00 AM
I have never worked with one. But I've seen them around and have not been impressed. I haven't seen very many but the ones I've seen I wouldn't want to own. Maybe others have seen better ones. But my question is this...if there are allergies for golden retrievers and allergies to poodles, how does a cross magically eliminate that? I'm not being sarcastic here either, I would really like to know how that works. That's out of my knowledge base at the current time.

Kg
By Pit Boss - 8/11/2009 9:41:47 PM
Goldendoodle? Is that a fancy name for mutt? Is this actually a recognized AKC breed?
By Brian B - 8/12/2009 9:53:50 AM
Might take a look at Pudlepointers or Wirehaired Griffons.  I'm not sure they are hypoallergenic.  But, both breeds shed very little.  I'm pretty sure that a Pudlepointer was developed by breeding english pointers with poodles way back in the day.  However, unlike the "doodles", they were bred as a hunting dog and are proven hunters today.  I've seen a few Pudlepointers in the field and they were hard-driving bird dogs.   
By rb8187 - 8/12/2009 2:28:45 PM
It is not a breed recognized by AKC however they are specifically and intentionally crossbred mostly to get rid of some of the golden's health issues and shedding.
By cwood - 8/12/2009 2:39:42 PM
Brian B 8/12/2009
Might take a look at Pudlepointers or Wirehaired Griffons.  I'm not sure they are hypoallergenic.  But, both breeds shed very little.  I'm pretty sure that a Pudlepointer was developed by breeding english pointers with poodles way back in the day.  However, unlike the "doodles", they were bred as a hunting dog and are proven hunters today.  I've seen a few Pudlepointers in the field and they were hard-driving bird dogs.   

You could also look at a German Wirehair or the Drathaar (same basic dog, but different registry).  A buddy has a Drat, and he doesn't seem to shed as much as my lab - everything sheds, though...everything

By SusieQuack - 8/12/2009 3:03:51 PM
Have you considered a Portuguese Water Dog ? They have papers and are considered hypo-allergic.
By lanco - 8/13/2009 3:11:53 AM
The Portugese Water Dog is not an actively hunted breed so is no more likely to be useful then a hebegebedoodle. The breed you should look into is the Irish Water Spaniel. This is a very rare breed but many of the ones still around are used for hunting. The coat is the same a standard poodle. They are ugly but unlike any other option they are available from hunting lines. These dogs are even able to compete in retriever field trial and hunt tests. Also the key difference between the poodle breeds and all most other dogs is that they have hair not fur. Hair grows continuously without shedding whereas fur grows to a set length the stops and so has to be shed. The pudlepointer and wirehaired are not going to be hypoallergenic in the sense that poodle crosses or the IWS will. Before you get any of these breeds I would strongly suggest that your family visit with some poodles and make sure there are no sniffles or itchy eyes.

Here are some picks from boykinspaniel.com. There are many references to dogs with hunt test titles and many pics of these dogs hunting. This is 1 breed where duel champions are common so don't worry if there are some show champions in the pedigree. I have never hunted with one but at least there is a lot of legitimate info out there on using this breed to hunt. Like I said these things are not the best looking but a breed where you can seek puppies from hunting or even hunt tested parents beats the snot out of a mutt bred from 2 non-hunting parents. These things are a good bit bigger than most spaniels, about the size of a small lab and they say they are pretty good in cold water.

By lanco - 8/13/2009 3:50:20 AM
Oh yeah, so I don't seem odd for saying that these are not attractive dogs when I own working spaniels myself, its the bald(ish) rat tail that many have, they have pretty faces and the coat is what you make of it. By the way remember that when buying any haired breed (bichon, standard poodle, dalmationdoodle whatever) you are buying a lifetime of dog grooming. If you pay to have someone do it for you it will run $50-$75 (or more) every couple of months. However you can learn to do this at home with a decent pair of clippers. The key would be to train the dog from the time it was a pup to stand still and be groomed. Good luck.
By greatbleu - 8/13/2009 10:20:12 AM
While I have no working knowledge of any of the 'doodles', I do know that the 'allergies' that some people suffer has little to do with shedding of fur and more to do with 'dander'. Dander is essentially the sloughing of dead skin cells and dried saliva from the skin and fur.

Most 'recognized' "doodles" were bred to be hypo-allergenic not NON-allergenic so there is no guarantee that your family members will not be allergic. An additional quality of the "doodles" is that their prey drive has been bred out of them as their primary use is as companion dogs. In my mind this makes them VERY POOR candidates for hunting.

Google these breeds and read up on them more. My guess is that you'll do better with a more typical retriever that is bathed regularly.

By Lablover2010 - 8/13/2009 1:18:57 PM
If you're looking for a dog that is hypo-allergenic then you should make sure to get a multi-generation doodle, that is a line of Goldendoodles breeding with Goldendoodles. The first generation, a Golden Retriever and a Poodle, isn't always a guarantee allergy free dog, but the more generations you breed you can bring out more of the qualities you desire, allergy free dogs. You can easy find these by simply asking the breeder, they usually have titles like F1 for first generation, poodle and Golden crossed, F2 a Goldendoodle and a Goldendoodle, and a F1b a Goldendoodle crossed with a poodle. A Multi-generation Doodle is a 4th generation cross between Goldendoodles and tends to produce the best Doodles out of all the choices.

As for hunting, I would recommend a Labradoodle if you must choose a Doodle over a pure bed Lab. The only reason I say that is because Labs have a much stronger instinct and drive for retrieving that Goldens, so with a Labradoodle you will probably have more luck ending up with a dog who still loves the water and to retrieve. Both doodles are great dogs I know people with both so you'll be happy with whatever you get. Best of luck.
By lanco - 8/13/2009 8:55:34 PM
Back to the IWS this breed is also frequently discussed as being less allergenic than most dogs. All dogs are potentially allergenic via saliva and dander. Haired (non-shedding) breeds disperse less dander into the environment because it stay stuck in their curly hair and that hair stays on the dog. There are genetically altered cats you can purchase for several thousand dollars who don't produce the proteins that cause allergies in most cat allergic people but there are no such dogs. Breeding doodle to doodle will fix the haired type but does not alter the antigens (offending proteins) produced by the dog. The IWS has the same coat type as the other historic water dogs (poodles, portugese water dogs, spanish water dogs) that are reputed to be less allergenic. Unlike those breeds however it is still actively used in the field. This forum is full of stories of dismal attempts to make duck dogs out of doodles so for my money I would look into a IWS before I rolled the dice on a doodle.
By mike51098 - 8/15/2009 3:46:59 PM
No, this dog should not be in the field or a boat.
By arkansashogs18 - 8/15/2009 4:48:46 PM
Get a lab, keep it in the back yard, and tell the fam not to pet it much?
By pookey - 8/15/2009 8:53:07 PM
Hey Guys, You could go to mexico and buy one of the guys that run out and get the birds for u. I am sure they don't shed they are easy to train and will work for food.  LOL  LOL  LOL  Just a joke    A little humor   Later, Jim
By Pit Boss - 8/16/2009 9:33:23 AM
Is the Golden that you are planning to breed to this no hunting line poodle out of a field champion ( I am not talking WC, WCX but rather FC/AFC) or is the Golden a bench champion?
Are you an experienced trainer?
Can this breed handle training pressure?
How many of these dogs have you seen work?

The nice thing is if this dog doesn't work out for you at least you have an excuse.